In an interview last night, Epstein asserted, "These deaths start off as just ghetto incidents. Who's not? Then along come the Panthers-middle-class college kids who don't know anything about the ghetto-and these deaths become 'police raids,' part of a Federal genocide plan."

Garry also accused Epstein of prejudicing the cause of his client, Bobby Seale, and Seale's co-defendant, Ericka Huggins, who are now on trial for their lives in New Haven in connection with the death of Alex Rackley, discussed in the New Yorker article.

The publicity given the case in Epstein's article has demonstrably affected prospective New Haven jurors, but Epstein last night defended himself against Garry's charge by claiming that he had no control over when his article would appear.

"The New Yorker has had the story since November; for all I knew the trial would be over by the time they decided to run it. Nothing in the article reflects on Seale himself. Besides, Garry is using the wrong tactics. He could have gotten a very quick trial for Seale if he had settled for a mostly white middle-class jury. As for Ericka Huggins, I think she's very much mixed up in Rackley's death," Epstein continued.

The segment of the Frost show featuring Epstein and Garry was originally scheduled to last 15 minutes, but occupied instead the show's entire 90 minutes.

Frost, Epstein, and Garry grew visibly angry during' the discussion, and Garry frequently referred to Epstein as a "liar," a "windbag," a "racist," and "an agent of the FBI or CIA."

After Garry labeled Epstein a "racist," Frost retorted, "No one who is familiar with Mr. Epstein's record would believe such a charge."

Epstein last night said that he did not know what Frost could have been referring to in his record which would contradict Garry's charge of racism. He stated that he had no history of civil rights activity, for example, but that it was possible that Frost had been trying to protect himself or Garry from a libel action by Epstein.

Epstein then admitted, however, that since as a "public figure" he would find it difficult or impossible to collect damages for libel. Frost's defense of his racial attitudes was superfluous.