I: Have we developed to a point in our own culture where we only need to study in schools those who would be totally inaccessible, much as the Classics were to a man of Milton's time?

A: That's right, and then after that, let people enjoy what they care to enjoy, what they find within their own range of taste. . . .

I: You've visited China many times in the past. Do you think China is closer to achieving "the good life" on earth than we are?

R: Yes, I've spent years of my life in China. They have some enormous assets, and one is that they have had a deep, ingrained horror of violence. When violence occurs, it's recognized in their culture as a breakdown. Certain people in our community no doubt do feel like that, but too many don't think that carrying a gun is a sign of inferiority. The Chinese have felt very deeply that people who will resort to violence on ordinary civil and other occasions are out. That's a tremendous protection for a counttry; and it is one, we may hope, they still have. When you think of the number of people, the amount of moving about, and the amount of tension inside that great community, it's amazing how little loss of life their revolution has caused. Very economical.

I: So you think Chairman Mao has come closer to a utopia than any Western nation?

R: He has a long way to go, and we have a long way to go. No, I'm not going to speculate; actually, the terrible truth is that no one, from John Fairbank here on down, knows nearly enough about what is happening in China. Our sources aren't good enough.

I: Turning back to Design for Escape, one finds reference to a plan for world education. How do you set up an administrative authority to run a thing like this?

R: I don't think you can; at least they would all be as bad one as another. What I feel is that if there is a way of doing things which is obviously much better than what anyone else has to offer them, in a bad enough emergency, everyone will jump at it. I've been only concerned to produce something really better than anyone else has. It's the old mousetrap story, you see; the better mousetrap story. Only, the mice have to become insufferable first. Until then we all stick to our old ineffective mousetraps. I think we have a better way of teaching English, but while you're teaching English, you might as well teach everything else. That is to say, a world position, what's needed for living, a philosophy of religion, how to find things out and the whole works -- mental and moral seed for the planet. In this way the two-thirds of the planet that doesn't yet know how to read and write would learn in learning how to read and write English, the things that would help them find their answers to "Where should man go?